Wisdom.

Disciples FTW!

This is real tru. However, the one disagreement I have is with wale. His lyrics are far superior to the likes of B.O.B, Drake and especially that clown called solja boi.

Hmm..Which would you classify Yeezy?

RT @Ivan – Disciples FTW!

How is MF Doom not in the weird kid category??!! Dude is a complete loon! Also question the categorization of B.o.B. and (possibly) Wale as being low on lyrical content….

Come on man… I know he dropped “Chillin”, but that categorization of Wale is a bit harsh.

Come on man… I know he dropped “Chillin”, but that categorization of Wale is a bit harsh.

“Had a spark when you started, but now you’re just garbage”
-JiggaMan

Your boy Wale is a beautiful letdown, IMO. So for right now, he is where he is.

Loved the post Rizoh, You pretty much described the hip hop industry in a nutshell. The only thing is that the Kingpins, are starting to lose the flair that they had when they first reached that status. Compare 50 cents at his climax to his career now. These kingpins are being slowly replaced with newer models like discontinued products..and they’re fighting to hold on to their relevance.

Gangster rap is an old trend and I think nobody is really intrigued unless its Gucci Mane fans. There might be a reprisal, but not in the near future.

This is my opinion, but I think disciples are just about as corny and commercial as the other categories. They try to use formula’s to capture that “backpack” or “conscious” crowd but their is still the missing element of genuine effort into creating art…

I think rappers or any artist for that matter, succedd when they enforce that genuine substance into their music (cliche I know, but it works..)
What usually tends to happen is that those genuine artists fall into multiple categories..

In my opinion the biggest liability you can have as an artist is basing your career on a trend…

Soulja Boy & Charles Hamilton should be in this category.. Wack

Wale & B.O.B. shouldn’t be in the same paragraph as Soulja Boy.

1. Rizoh didn’t post this entry..lol

2. I still disagree w/ Drake being low on lyrical content – pls refer to the ‘comeback season’ mixtape.

3. Wouldn’t Rawse fit into the ‘gangsta’ category better? He hasn’t achieved kingpin status yet imo.

So gangsta rappers are 5th year seniors, while kingpins are the cats that hustled but still made honor society, and disciples are the A/V club dudes, right?

Maybe it’s because I’m from D.C., but I definitely don’t agree with Wale being in the same category as Soulja Boy…he’s more in the weird kids category, imo. I agree with everything else, though, and as for Rick Ross, for all intents and purposes, I think he’s in kingpin status, if not literally, figuratively.

why’d you bother adding this cat to the blog, all he does is perpetuate the stale ideas of a self-proclaimed internet head who is scared of death of possibly liking something that’s relevant/popular

give a listen to “The Kramer” and then slap yourself for even considering grouping Wale with Soulja Boy

“The disciples” lmfao, another lame variation of “real hip-hop” right? Shame on a disciple for thinking it’s ok to try and appeal to the mainstream.

Fuck these labels, the only two categories that matter are good hip-hop and wack hip-hop, better get a grip on that before you start dividing rap even further.

Where does somebody like Eminem fit in? He is a wierd combination of pop, horror, emo, and underground rap.

whoever wrote this and placed Wale in that spot is an idiot.

Damn Nahshon, you catching a lotta ish over this post. People, if you take everything this seriously you’ll probably have a heart attack @ the age of 40. It’s a lighthearted blog posted, get a perspective.

That being said, despite his major pop appeal I don’t think Wale belongs in a category described as “High on pop appeal and low on lyrical content, these are the artists who have capitalized on style alone”. Dude is way too lyrical & topical to fit that description.

It’s a great post, don’t get me wrong. I think residents of DC just like to think highly of Wale. Down to earth good dude and a great rapper, whose just released a few bad tracks.

Let’s wait for that album, his mixtape was the best mixtape i’ve heard in a year +

My issue with the article isn’t so personal, it’s theoretical.

I see a lot of inconsistency: How can Wayne be gangster when he’s making Kingpin cash? How can Wayne be a gangster when he’s making Cool Kid songs? In effect I’m asking about how you keep those arbitrary lines between categories standing since at the end of the day they’re all guys making money rapping (They’re all “in the NBA.”)

The second issue is that you don’t seem to actually establish criteria for these categories. I’m not saying you have to be scientific here, but telling me the difference in albums released and money earned between a soldier and a kingpin, and then something like “How much money was earned from singles/ringtones vs album sales” to differentiate further from your “Cool Kids” category. These are the sort of steps you have to take when you set up a thesis, otherwise you’re just talking out the side of your mouth.

I also have a lot of issue with “weird kids” and “disciples.” I feel like their inclusion leads to an immature ownership of those rappers, the way kids used to pick a favorite Ninja Turtle. Of course Raphael was the coolest, he kept it real. We’re talking on a hip hop blog, of course we’re going to like Nas and Brother Ali – you might as well have added another category called Circle Jerkers and listed all of our names there with the description “Nah, but for real, these guys like the Disciples, that true shit.”

Mostly, I disagree entirely with the “circumstances where they were unable to be themselves.” Dude, Asher Roth is a kid and has a record out: he’s being himself just fine. On the flip of that, I don’t think he has been forced into a corner any more in his upbringing than Mos or 50 or Wayne. People is people man, we ain’t that different. When a guy decides he wants to pick up a mic or pen (or a brush, or a pencil or a typewriter or a guitar) there are a number of reasons they do so, and most of those reasons cross gender, color, nationality, and sexuality borders daily all around the world.

Just some thoughts.

Putting Wale in the same category of as Drake and Soulja Boy make it blatantly obvious you’ve never heard anything from him besides “Chillin.”

There’s nothing more to say. Rizoh, I know you’re a better editor than this to let garbage like this post emerge.

List FAIL.

You guys amuse me sometimes. I don’t always agree with Nahshon and Andrew, but that’s hip-hop right there. If all TRU writers agreed on everything it would be boring. I welcome varying viewpoints because I enjoy the challenge and diversity in opinion. One of my favorite bloggers of all time — a guy who influenced me greatly — is also someone I disagree with on 75% of rap topics. But we share a common passion for the culture, and that’s more important than anything else.

Simmer down, people. Nay’s entitled to his 2 cents just as we have the right to throw a fridge at him for his opinion.

@Dom Corleone: I edit words, I don’t censor opinions.

You have to be kidding me. Drake and Wale are nowhere near the same kind of rapper that Soulja Boy is. Get your facts straight. This article is wack as shit. Whoever wrote it has no credibility whatsoever.

@Riz,

I’d never second guess an author’s right to voice his opinion, but I definitely retain the ability to be a jerk about it when I disagree with him. If anything, it’s clear that Nashon wrote some stuff that resonated with people and I hope that serious criticism only further increases his skills.

^You’re 100% right. And I actually feel what you’re saying about the need to be more specific about the criteria.

I always welcome a healthy debate.

damn, I stop checking comments for a minute ya’ll get all Mavis Beacon on me. I appreciate the lively debate, although I think some people take it a bit seriously. I used to think that I was entitled to my opinion, but I guess not. Read and disagree, but do it with a smile, please. Anyway, let’s hit the high points:

1. Esbee (What up, man!) I’m gonna give ‘comback season’ a cycle and see what i come up with.

2. Dear Everyone, how much space is there on Wale’s knapsack? Until obama’s train idea comes to fruition, I guess you guys are gonna keep ridin’ Wale’s high speed rail. Stan on!

3. Drake is pop. That’s who he is. No disrespect. I love the man’s hustle, he is changing the way the game is played. But his entire career is based on style/charisma/charm/etc. dude is not a lyricist. <–(That’s a period.)

4. ATI – You mad! hahaha. Dog, I love this music. I absolutely love it. Division exists because hip hop represents more than one division of subculture. You sir, are a moron, and even you are entitled to your opinion and i listen to it because it represents the ideas of a demographic that is just like you: Morons. Keep in mind that I never said that I don’t like any of these groups. They are not grouped in order of preference in any way. I was simple pointing out who they are according to my survey of their material. When people make dance songs for top 40, they are pop, ok? Hopefully that helps. I will draw a diagram if you need me to.

5. J to the AAP – great point on topicality. I will concede that because it is true. But to me, he seems to rely on lame attempts at elocution rather than substance. Like the difference between saying the name of something and being familiar with it. Am I making sense there?

6. Austin – Seems like you put a lot of thought into this, which I appreciate because I did too, so being one of the few who didn’t just knee-jerk didn’t go unnoticed. I discussed this with Andrew yesterday as well because he brought up an argument similar to yours on Wayne with regards to Rick Ross. My opinion is that their entire catalog reflects a presented biography that fits this category. Wayne’s persona is based around being a dope boy, by which he has been able to step up his style game or whatever else. I agree with you on criteria. I left out a lot of my own criteria for placing each person in a certain category for two reasons: 1) so that followers less prone to actually read the full article would find it less daunting and 2) to stimulate this very conversation. I enjoyed your comments on Asher because he loves his life. But he does discuss the difficulties associated with being a white hip-hop-head when your parents love “white music” on the last track of his album.

7. I never said that there was anything good about being in the disciples group. So maybe try reading the post before assuming I would ever self proclaim “internet head” status.

8. I respect Rizoh a lot. I owe him a lot in that he inspired me to extend my writing into hip-hop and put me on when I decided to do it. But he ain’t my daddy and he doesn’t have to agree or cosign what I say, so feel free to direct all comments to me. Thanks.

All in all, the post was to show how a united group of hip-hoppers is a faceted fraternity. But I guess you guys just wanna fight?

Me and Andrew on G-chat

11:58 AM me: got the internet going nuts again

Andrew: i saw

11:59 AM careful, my friend
the Wale inclusion is dicey

me: this i know
but i think he let down the community that loves him and they don’t realize it yet

12:00 PM Andrew: he let them down, fine. but souljaboy doesn’t fall under the same category
I think had you put Wale, Drake and someone else in there you would have been fine

12:01 PM me: cool kids? “you’re a jerk”?
who are those guys?
from LA, who sing the jerk song…

Andrew: the new boyz?

12:02 PM me: there we go

Andrew: new boyz
dude
put The Clipse in with Wale and Drake
that’s a perfect fit

12:03 PM me: yeah but they don’t stay in hip hops face enough

Andrew: who cares
they fit
your post wasn’t Rap’s 5 Categories with people who are uber relevant

me: visibility breeds relevance and everyone i included has remained current in one way or another

Andrew: I think my point still stands
you didn’t frame it as such

12:04 PM me: you’re right that they fit
it was a personal choice to use people who are in the light right now

Andrew: right
and I’m not advocating that you shouldn’t try and use people who are relevant
relevance most often means newsworthy

12:05 PM me: i really would have rather discussed Lupe and Cassidy…but what have you done for me lately

Andrew: I guess I’m saying I would have gone fit over relevance in that situation just so it sat right
but what have you done for me lately?

me: sitting right with certain folks was never a concern

12:06 PM Andrew: look, I’m not trying to fight you on this
I get why you did it

12:07 PM me: Can I post this convo in the comments section?

I guess it takes a certain level of cluelessness to do something as strange as grouping Wale with SB, and then having the nerve to question somebody else’s intelligence (or better yet, call people stans as a clever retort). Oh wait, that ‘you mad’ comment really was a stroke of genius, I might have to use that one some time. At least you were smart enough to use the word “survery,” having made it clear that you haven’t actually paid enough attention to some of these artist’s material.

Wale’s pop now ’cause he put out a wack single? If we used that kind of logic, you may as well call Jay low on lyrics on high on pop appeal (but of course Nas throws out fluff with Chris Brown, roffle, and he’s a disciple!)

I must have missed the dance crazes that Wale and Drake have started, or this imaginary female-heavy fanbase that Wale has. The Mixtape About Nothing and Comeback Season are clearly must-listens for you, because I don’t require any diagrams, just an indication that a little bit of thought was put into these groupings. And I guess there’s no positive connotation associated with being “a true rap believer” – sounds like a crappy version of “real hip-hop” to me.

My last:
Dear ATI,
I appreciated your comical, jabbing tone on this one. And you actually made some good points. Makes it a much more enjoyable experience, right? Thanks for that!

Here’s my response, I apologize for my humanity. Apparently, I’m not immune to misspelling. I bet that makes you feel like a scholar…

Jay’s lyrics disappoint me lately so take it how you will. Shoot me an email and I’ll forward you the email that I sent to Nas regarding that monkey crap-flinging-contest that he calls a song with Chris Brown.

Alright Stanley, 75% of the Wale fans that I know from sources other than this comment section are female. Not a bad thing, just something I noticed. And that is not to say that every person has to match every part of the description of their category.

Just got done re-listening to comeback season and I can see what you’re saying but I think my previous point to J to the AAP stands. I was never impressed by Mixtape about nothing…but I’ll give it another listen if you insist. (As long as he shouts DC, ya’ll eat it up!)

Also, from a person with my religious background “true believer” is pejorative term. But I can’t expect you to know that so I’ll be more explicit with the sarcasm next time. Thanks for the heads up on that.

how did spencer pratt not make the list ANYWHERE.

JOKES/LOLZ

But really though, where did you go to school at? I have never seen such diversity in cliques in one school.

Where are the foreign exchange kids at?

Where are the teachers at?

I mean, you can judge Drake as a cool kid, but he went to high school, TWICE, and probably wasn’t cool in either of them.

I’d love for this convo to delve into what makes Jay a pop artist and what keeps Nas a disciple. I might have to take a day off from work for that.

Adding Lupe to the mix would’ve been fun too.

I hope you’re talking about his recent singles or what not, ’cause Jay’s lyricism on American Gangster was top-notch!

I would spell out an argument on why I disagree with Drake being low on lyrics (sidebar, he’s an especially capable songwriter), but I could at least see why he’d be grouped where he was (the female audience, the pop appeal). Mainly ’cause dude has his fair share of ill verses, too many to say he made it off style alone.

*downloads Back to the Feature -_-

Nahshon-

If you haven’t listened to Wale’s 100 Miles & Running yet, I’d highly recommend it. I think it’s his best mixtape to date, including the Back to the Feature that just dropped. Here ya go:

http://www.zshare.net/download/2652561edde1f9/

I’m not mad at him putting out “Chillin” to showcase some crossover appeal. In today’s landscape, a rapper sometimes has to sacrifice to gain more recognition than just the blogs or underground circuit. I still hold to my opinion that the original, Lada Gaga-less version is far superior.

Thing is, Wale’s a lyricist first and rising hip-pop star second. As long as he stays within his element, he’s golden. Let’s hope doesn’t start singing cheesy R&B to females or making up dances (besides W.A.L.E.D.A.N.C.E., but that was fly).

Much respect for the convo, my bad for the harshness of my original comment. I was just taken back by the comparison of SB, Drizzy & Wale. Uno.

Rizoh -

I am unately reminded of my college Journalism classes where I slaved through countless sleep-inducind stories.. Also, my overtime hours spent as the Music Editor for my college’s entertainment magazine were a pain but ultimately beneficial.

However, in addtion to the actual words, an editor should step back to keep an eye on content and context to see if there’s a legit argument with detaied support.

Only real complaint I had is that he didn’t use any examples or solid reasoning for classifying Wale in the same category as SB & Drizzy.

IMO Due (Dilla)gence, fact-checkig and basic research to support an argument is as important as clear writing, if not more.

Aight, enough flooding. Peace TRUbians.

So “unately” = “unfortunately,” “sleep-inducind” = “sleep-inducing” and “fact-chekig” = “fact-checking” of course.

It’s late, mind is a bit hazy, forgive me.. Ironic I didn’t even edit my own post. FAIL on my part.

[...] section debate over contributing author Nahshon’s comparison to Soulja Boy and Drake on his Hip Hop Lunchroom post. [...]

I don’t think anyone will disagree with that you hit the nail on every other category besides the Cool Kids one – shits on point…

I personally agree with stating your opinion and being true to one self BUT when writing an editorial like such, facts should be tied in with opinions; if you feel a certain way about an artist, back up why you feel that way so we will possibly have food for thought. Stating outrageous things just because it’s your opinion should be placed on personal blogs and not hip hop blogs.

Nahshon, the description you give for Cool Kids does not even come close to a category that Wale falls in. I need for you to show me these tracks where he is dancing, as well as tracks catering to women. Wale has no female fan base like SB or Drake. Overall, we just aren’t checking for him like that…*sidenote, I’ve been rockin to Wale for a few yrs now, thanks to MySpace & him being on their homepage but we really don’t check for him*….Hell, I’m trying to see how Drake even fits into that description – again, what dance song does he have?

“Drake is pop. That’s who he is” – really Nahshon? lol I don’t consider any urban artist Pop unless they make it to the Top Hits stations and have middle aged white men buying their albums (ie: Kanye West, Sean Kingston). There is nothing Pop about Drake. He is not a lyricist, I will agree. But he is not Pop….Wale isn’t Pop either – he’ll never be played on a Top 40 Hits station…..

Just thought I’d add some CaT to the debate – folks were on a mission LOL….I can honestly careless about most of the people listed – if it ain’t Plies, it ain’t right! “GIVE ME THAT BECKYYYYYYYYYY!” lol – I kid, I joke

Doesn’t anyone besides myself (and perhaps Nahshon, though he hasn’t stated as much) believe an artist’s subject matter contributes to where they fall categorically? Just because someone isn’t a successful (or talented) pop artist doesn’t mean s/he isn’t a pop artist.

never again CathrynMarie

[...] been plenty of chatter between pro-Drake and anti-Drake heads on TRU lately. Personally, I disagree with those who claim [...]

Where do you think Usher would fit into this group? He’s very commercial (see: Usher with a milk mustache) so I’d have to say the cool kids. Still a great rapper though.

[...] City area and would like to meet a real life trapper extraordinaire (or gangster, according to Nahshon’s Hip-Hop Lunchroom), then Bar Rio is the place to be on [...]

[...] My best friend just dropped a new joint on Twitter! I’m feelin’ this one like Mac Dre is feelin’ his-self! Wale – My Sweetie (unfinished) farkItButton(”Wale+-+My+Sweetie”, “http://therapup.uproxx.com/2009/08/wale-my-sweetie.html”, “80×20″);.digg-this-compact { width: 125px; padding: 0 0 0 5px; background: #fff url(”http://therapup.uproxx.com/wp-content/plugins/cent-digg/images/diggit-compact-left.gif”) no-repeat 0 0; } .digg-this-compact span { display: block; padding: 3px 3px 0 0; background: #fff url(”http://therapup.uproxx.com/wp-content/plugins/cent-digg/images/diggit-compact-right.gif”) no-repeat 100% 100%; }digg_title=decodeURIComponent(”Wale+-+My+Sweetie”); digg_url=”http://therapup.uproxx.com/2009/08/wale-my-sweetie.html”; digg_bgcolor=”#fff”; digg_skin=”compact”; digg_window=”new”; digg_topic=”music”;SHARETHIS.addEntry({ title: “Wale – My Sweetie”, url: “http://therapup.uproxx.com/2009/08/wale-my-sweetie.html” }); [...]